WHICH EPISODE(S)?

[2***@bigfoot.com]

In your opinions which episode(s)had the best chase and or pursuit
scenes?Both Jim's car and Rockys truck count.

[AGCLARKSON]

Here're a few that come to mind right away.

They're not all with the Firebird or Rocky's truck.

The Mack truck duel in THE DARK AND BLOODY GROUND. Jim's rental hasn't got the
horses. Lucky for that narrow bridge.

The IN HAZARD chase that ends up with Beth driving in circles in the scrap yard
while Jim bribes the crane operator to drop the hoisted pile of metal in front
of the pursuing gorrillas' car. A classic.

I've always gotten a kick out of Jim being chased while he is driving VW
bugs--the pizza bug in AARON IRONWOOD and that green bug of the small-talent
Vegas lounge singer in ROUNDABOUT. (I think it's ROUNDABOUT.)

Then in WARREN there's that junky hatchback Warren and Jim valet-claim (grand
auto theft?) from the wedding they crash and in which they flee from the cops.

The bus-in-the-alley ploy in HELIUM DWARF is another great variation on this
motif that runs throughout TRF. It is HELIUM, isn't it?

Jim's Keystone Kops capers in the "borrowed" police car in DEEP BLUE (?) when
he keeps cutting off the bad guys from escaping via the warehouse driveways is
another good one.

Of course there're lots more.

[William R.]

"What now, Lance?"

"Trust me!"

Post by AGCLARKSON
Here're a few that come to mind right away.
They're not all with the Firebird or Rocky's truck.
The Mack truck duel in THE DARK AND BLOODY GROUND. Jim's rental hasn't got the
horses. Lucky for that narrow bridge.
The IN HAZARD chase that ends up with Beth driving in circles in the scrap yard
while Jim bribes the crane operator to drop the hoisted pile of metal in front
of the pursuing gorrillas' car. A classic.
I've always gotten a kick out of Jim being chased while he is driving VW
bugs--the pizza bug in AARON IRONWOOD and that green bug of the small-talent
Vegas lounge singer in ROUNDABOUT. (I think it's ROUNDABOUT.)
Then in WARREN there's that junky hatchback Warren and Jim valet-claim (grand
auto theft?) from the wedding they crash and in which they flee from the cops.
The bus-in-the-alley ploy in HELIUM DWARF is another great variation on this
motif that runs throughout TRF. It is HELIUM, isn't it?
Jim's Keystone Kops capers in the "borrowed" police car in DEEP BLUE (?) when
he keeps cutting off the bad guys from escaping via the warehouse driveways is
another good one.
Of course there're lots more.

[AGCLARKSON]

William R writes: "What now, Lance?" "Trust me!"

You know, that just may be the funniest of them all. A classic of classics!

[RNeill22]

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?
nd that green bug of the small-talent
Vegas lounge singer in ROUNDABOUT. (I think it's ROUNDABOUT.)

Did the green VW belong to the singer or was it a rental car that Jim got
himself?

[AGCLARKSON]

RNeill writes: "Did the green VW belong to the singer or was it a rental car
that Jim got himself?"

Good question & I can't remember. I'll have to check it out.

[bcnmason]

Post by AGCLARKSON

Post by AGCLARKSON
RNeill writes: "Did the green VW belong to the singer or was it a rental car
that Jim got himself?"

Good question & I can't remember. I'll have to check it out.

I wasn't sure myself. I had always thought it was a rental, although
there's no evidence to prove it was.

First, the discussion with Moss at his office prior to leaving for Vegas,
only makes mention of the air travel accommodations. Not a word on renting
a car when he arrives there.

Secondly, he does get in a cab at the airport, and he does exit the same cab
at Nancy Wades apartment complex.

Also, when he and Nancy exit the apartment, one of the goons is standing
right behind the VW. I can only assume that they knew that it was indeed
Nancy's car, as Jim certainly didn't pull up in it.

Unfortunately, we don't see Nancy fork over the keys to Jim, which would
have pretty much clinched it. Note, when Jim tries to get the door open and
it sticks on him, he gives Nancy a quick awkward glance, as if to say "what
kind of piece of crap is this"?

At the very end of the episode, Jim is seen driving a relatively new Ford
LTD to the exchange at the Hoover Dam. That would classify as being a
rental, unless places like "Rent a Wreck" were in business some 30 odd
years ago. Even then, the VW would never have been considered. At least
not in my neck of the woods.

In any case, you get the feeling a scene was cut out, or perhaps they just
goofed?

Brian

[dw]

Post by bcnmason

Post by AGCLARKSON

Post by AGCLARKSON
RNeill writes: "Did the green VW belong to the singer or was it a

rental

Post by bcnmason
car

Post by AGCLARKSON

Post by AGCLARKSON
that Jim got himself?"

Good question & I can't remember. I'll have to check it out.

I wasn't sure myself. I had always thought it was a rental, although
there's no evidence to prove it was.
First, the discussion with Moss at his office prior to leaving for Vegas,
only makes mention of the air travel accommodations. Not a word on renting
a car when he arrives there.
Secondly, he does get in a cab at the airport, and he does exit the same cab
at Nancy Wades apartment complex.
Also, when he and Nancy exit the apartment, one of the goons is standing
right behind the VW. I can only assume that they knew that it was indeed
Nancy's car, as Jim certainly didn't pull up in it.
Unfortunately, we don't see Nancy fork over the keys to Jim, which would
have pretty much clinched it. Note, when Jim tries to get the door open and
it sticks on him, he gives Nancy a quick awkward glance, as if to say "what
kind of piece of crap is this"?
At the very end of the episode, Jim is seen driving a relatively new Ford
LTD to the exchange at the Hoover Dam. That would classify as being a
rental, unless places like "Rent a Wreck" were in business some 30 odd
years ago. Even then, the VW would never have been considered. At least
not in my neck of the woods.
In any case, you get the feeling a scene was cut out, or perhaps they just
goofed?
Brian

I would guess it was actually her car and not a rental. As far as them
having a VW for a rental, well it is at least possible considering Jim drove
a Vega in Dark and Bloody Ground. Don't forget those were the years of the
gas shortages and everyone was looking for economical cars. It wouldn't be
the first time in the series they went a little over board to make a point
and Jim driving the VW, had it been a rental, may just have been a little
bit of a practical joke given the gas crisis, and how tight the insurance
guy was about expenses.

[AGCLARKSON]

Reply to all re whether the green VW in Roundabout is a rental:

You know, I'm beginning to think that RNeill is probably right (I tend to
subscribe to his encyclopedic accuracy in general, anyway), it's a rental, but
that WGN must have chopped from their last night's presentation of ROUNDABOUT
some sequence that nails it down.

After all, they DID chop the car chase scene from the Robertson estate where
Jim and the singer flee in the green VW.

The only puzzling things re this question of rental or not(?) in WGN's
incomplete version last night and as we NGers have variously pointed out are:

The goons waiting outside the hotel looking like they know it's the singer's
car.

Plus Jim, after the stuck door (which he might have already known about if he's
already driven the VW and hence NOT looked surprised and then disapprovingly at
the singer as in, What a poor excuse for a car YOUR bug is).

They don't show the singer giving Jim the keys to the car before he drives it
to the bank. To me that would pretty much have nailed down that it's her car.

Also, by then (after her weird behavior in Room 210) Jim's perceived the
singer's under stress for some reason he doesn't yet fathom and so he's anxious
to shepherd her to the bank and get Watson's company's check deposited in her
name and be done with things.

So he might be inclined to leave the driving to himself in this case.

Jim's initial arrival at the hotel in the cab is also something a missing scene
would have to clear up, i.e., if he had rented the VW, then why did he take a
cab?

Anyway, WGN has a film-chopping block in a back room somewhere, that's for
sure, and my guess is that either Curley, Moe or Larry did the chopping so they
could squeeze in an extra Propolene Diet Pill commercial. (How about that
"Doctor from the Harvard Medical School" hawking Propolene? That stuff must be
hydrochloric acid or something akin!)

Another not unprecedented possibility:

After we NGers have all done this collectively pretty good analysis on the
rental question, it might just be that the script for Roundabout simply
overlooked imposing clarity here.

RNEILL, didn't you a few weeks back find a somewhat similar lapse or ambiguity
in a scene involving Becker at a murder scene in the ep where Joan Van Ark is a
journalist trying to prove the innocence of a convict?

To me you showed there at the very least that it was a script flaw in lack of
clarity.

Terrific as they were, the TRF writers must have missed a few like this. The
real world is so overwhelmingly perverse in its complexity as opposed to our
minds and imaginations, it's a wonder there aren't more such lapses among the
best crime fiction writers.

Oh, well.

[RNeill22]

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?
Plus Jim, after the stuck door (which he might have already known about if he's
already driven the VW and hence NOT looked surprised and then disapprovingly at
the singer as in, What a poor excuse for a car YOUR bug is).

I think Jim's reactions to the stuck door were an opportunity for Garner to do
a comic double take, like when he's reacting to the glove compartment that
keeps falling open in Lance White's 'parade float.' No matter how many times
the VW door sticks, Rockford will always react with a wacky comic double-take
because it makes for a better, funnier scene than having him simply accept the
fact the door sticks and not react it.

Whoever's VW it was, Roundabout presented the green VW in such a negative
light, that I sometimes wonder if the use of Pizza Dan's VW as an escape
vehicle in "Aaron Ironwood..." the following season was TRF's way of
apologizing to the manufacturers of VW's for maligning their car. They made up
for the Roundabout one by showing that VW's could be brave and heroic, too.

Anyway, WGN has a film-chopping block in a back room somewhere, that's for
sure, and my guess is that either Curley, Moe or Larry did the chopping so they
could squeeze in an extra Propolene Diet Pill commercial. (How about that
"Doctor from the Harvard Medical School" hawking Propolene? That stuff must be
hydrochloric acid or something akin!)

It was even worse on TVLand, when they would chop out an extra minute from each
TRF episode so they could show the exact same "I Love New York" TVLand
Retromercial every night. I believe those are simply filler and don't even
generate any income for the station.

RNEILL, didn't you a few weeks back find a somewhat similar lapse or ambiguity
in a scene involving Becker at a murder scene in the ep where Joan Van Ark is a
journalist trying to prove the innocence of a convict?

Yes, that's right, Becker suddenly no longer had information that had been
provided to him in an earlier scene.

Post by AGCLARKSON
To me you showed there at the very least that it was a script flaw in lack of

clarity.

Post by AGCLARKSON
Terrific as they were, the TRF writers must have missed a few like this

Another example I pointed out recently was that in "Claire," Jim's trailer
moves from one location to another in mid-episode.

I'd add also that in "Drought At Indian Head River," Beth suggests Angel was
chosen as the patsy for the scam because he has no family to ask questions when
he disappears. Yet, all through the series we've heard Jim and Angel talk
about Angel's sister and brother-in-law, both of whom even appear in "The Empty
Frame."

[dw]

Post by RNeill22

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?

I'd add also that in "Drought At Indian Head River," Beth suggests Angel was
chosen as the patsy for the scam because he has no family to ask questions when
he disappears. Yet, all through the series we've heard Jim and Angel talk
about Angel's sister and brother-in-law, both of whom even appear in "The Empty
Frame."

I think you have to consider that statement as to whether Angel's
brother-in-law would have been concerned or upset if Angel disappeared.

Beth's statement may indeed have been accurate, LOL.

[RNeill22]

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?
I think you have to consider that statement as to whether Angel's
brother-in-law would have been concerned or upset if Angel disappeared.
Beth's statement may indeed have been accurate, LOL

That's a good possibility, since neither relative attended Angel's wedding or
fake funeral.

However, I do think they're close enough to him to notice if he disappears,
since Angel works for the brother-in-law and, as we learned in "Girl in The Bay
City Boys Club," he watches their house and car for them for them when they're
away. They might not notice right away he was gone (and Aaron might be
delighted!) but they'd notice eventually.

[dw]

Post by RNeill22

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?
I think you have to consider that statement as to whether Angel's
brother-in-law would have been concerned or upset if Angel disappeared.
Beth's statement may indeed have been accurate, LOL

That's a good possibility, since neither relative attended Angel's wedding or
fake funeral.
However, I do think they're close enough to him to notice if he disappears,
since Angel works for the brother-in-law and, as we learned in "Girl in The Bay
City Boys Club," he watches their house and car for them for them when they're
away.

But I wonder if Aaron knows Angel is watching his hiouse when he is away.
(g)

Remember Angel wanted the keys to Rocky's place in Dirty Money Black Light
becuase he knew Rocky was going to be away.


They might not notice right away he was gone (and Aaron might be

Post by RNeill22
delighted!) but they'd notice eventually.

I'm sure they would notice as well but would they be concerned enough to
push an investigation or just assume it was another of Angel's flaky cons or
scams gone bad.

[AGCLARKSON]

RNeill writes: "...Jim's reactions to the stuck door (in the green VW in
ROUNDABOUT) were an apportunity for Garner to do a comic double take...."

Yeah, above all Jim's got those instincts for turning things funnier and uses
them well.

"...that VW's could be brave and heroic, too."

Funny.

"I'd also add that in 'Drought At Indian Head River,' Beth suggests Angel was
chosen as the patsy...because he has no family.... Yet...we've heard...about
Angel's sister and brother-in-law, both of whom even appear in 'The Empty
Frame.'"

That's a good one. I hadn't caught it.

[dw]

Post by RNeill22

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?
nd that green bug of the small-talent
Vegas lounge singer in ROUNDABOUT. (I think it's ROUNDABOUT.)

Did the green VW belong to the singer or was it a rental car that Jim got
himself?

I am pretty sure it was a rental car. The insurance guy was really tight
about the expense account so am sure Jim wanted the cheapest thing he could
get so he wouldn't have to fight with him about the rental. Of course It
seems to me he was the one Jim used the "I have a black belt in 9 iron" line
on.

[John A. Weeks III]

Post by dw

Post by RNeill22

Subject: Re: WHICH EPISODE(S)?
nd that green bug of the small-talent
Vegas lounge singer in ROUNDABOUT. (I think it's ROUNDABOUT.)

Did the green VW belong to the singer or was it a rental car that Jim got
himself?

I am pretty sure it was a rental car. The insurance guy was really tight
about the expense account so am sure Jim wanted the cheapest thing he could
get so he wouldn't have to fight with him about the rental. Of course It
seems to me he was the one Jim used the "I have a black belt in 9 iron" line
on.

This show just ran lastnight on WGN. The green VW was a rental.
The quote was actually a 7 iron. Mr. Moss told Jim to watch out,
I have to warn you that I have a black belt in karate. Jim responded
that he had a black belt in 7 iron.

-john-

[AGCLARKSON]

RNeill writes (and others reply): Did the green VW belong to the singer or was
it a rental car that Jim got himself?

RNeill, you're almost always right, so I'll go with the rental.

Ditto with confirmation of same from John Weeks.

But clear up some confusion on my part.

I missed seeing that it's a rental last nite in the following sense:

I noticed just after the time it came on the air that ROUNDABOUT was the WGN ep
du jour.

So I quickly tuned in to see about the rental but I hit the ep after the
opening Mills Watson-golf club scene is done and just as Jim, already on the
trail, pulls up in front of the singer's hotel in a blue cab.

So he gets out of the cab, gets past the Berlin Wall guy at the Registration
desk and goes to Room 210. (Maybe I didn't see him in the cab but thought I
did; maybe he was walking past the cab and into the lobby. But I thought that
was him in the cab.)

After that scene in 210, he and the singer go to the hotel parking lot where
they get in the green VW to go to the bank.

So, since I missed earlier scenes and since WGN chops eps, I wasn't sure when
Jim, if he does rent the VW, parks the green VW in the hotel parking lot?

Does he rent the VW when he hits town, then drive it to the hotel, then go
somewhere else in a cab, and then return in a cab, after which he gets past the
guy at Reception, meets the singer, then when they leave together for the bank
drives away in his VW rental?

If the "rental" is based only on the skinflint attitude of Mills Watson and we
don't see or hear Jim renting it, then is it an inference that it's a rental?

Again, my confusion owing to the fact that I only saw the abbreviated ep.

Based on only what I was able to see, I figured it's the MCP 70's and the girl
gives Jim the keys to her VW bug (the appropriate car for her in her straits)
to drive when they go to the bank.

Anyway, and to change the subject, I believe WGN chopped the later getaway from
Robertson's estate when Jim and the singer are fleeing in the VW.

Moons ago on TVLand, I think that scene was preserved.

Also, on another note: Did I hear Mr. Mamamato call "Robertson" not the
latter's correct name but "Robinson" in that scene where Jim, lurking in the
stables of Robertson's estate, overhears the tiff between Robertson and
Mamamato at the wrought-iron front gate to Robertson's estate mansion?

That's the first time the Rifkin character's name is mentioned, as I recall.

Moments later, when Jim uses the estate intercom system to lure the gorilla and
the singer out of the holding room, Jim says, "This is Robertson. Bring the
girl to the main house."

It seemed to me to be "Robertson" the rest of the ep.

Probably I need a hearing aid.

[dw]

Post by AGCLARKSON
RNeill writes (and others reply): Did the green VW belong to the singer or was
it a rental car that Jim got himself?
RNeill, you're almost always right, so I'll go with the rental.
Ditto with confirmation of same from John Weeks.
But clear up some confusion on my part.
I noticed just after the time it came on the air that ROUNDABOUT was the WGN ep
du jour.
So I quickly tuned in to see about the rental but I hit the ep after the
opening Mills Watson-golf club scene is done and just as Jim, already on the
trail, pulls up in front of the singer's hotel in a blue cab.
So he gets out of the cab, gets past the Berlin Wall guy at the Registration
desk and goes to Room 210. (Maybe I didn't see him in the cab but thought I
did; maybe he was walking past the cab and into the lobby. But I thought that
was him in the cab.)
After that scene in 210, he and the singer go to the hotel parking lot where
they get in the green VW to go to the bank.

You could very well be right, that the VW actually belonged to the singer.
It has been a long time since I have seen the episode.

[John A. Weeks III]

Post by AGCLARKSON
Of course there're lots more.

One notable is Rocky and Jim chasing the bad guy in semi trucks
at the end of Gear Jammers.

-john-

[bcnmason]

Post by 2***@bigfoot.com
In your opinions which episode(s)had the best chase and or pursuit
scenes?Both Jim's car and Rockys truck count.

"Guilt". Great aerial shots from the 'copter and Jim had that 'bird
motoring!

"Sticks and Stones,...". A little adrenaline boosting squeal and smoke from
the tires never hurt anyone. Mean looking 'vette, and Jim pulls off some
classic moves. "Hey buddy,..have you been drinking"?

"This Case is Closed". I still get a good laugh watching those old Police
bikes spark their way through the corners.

There are plenty others, no doubt.

Brian

[dw]

Post by 2***@bigfoot.com
In your opinions which episode(s)had the best chase and or pursuit
scenes?Both Jim's car and Rockys truck count.

How about Caledonia, fouls the guys chasing him by going up the car trailer
and meets a cop standing there writing him a ticket when he is backing down.

Or Profit and Loss where the female race driver is driving Jim's car and
complaining about the suspension and Jim turns around and says the same to
Rocky about his truck. Then Rocky takes over driving and Jim really enjoys
it.

[Someone]

Post by dw
How about Caledonia, fouls the guys chasing him by going up the car trailer
and meets a cop standing there writing him a ticket when he is backing down.

"I'm sorry."

[dw]

Post by Someone

Post by dw
How about Caledonia, fouls the guys chasing him by going up the car trailer
and meets a cop standing there writing him a ticket when he is backing down.

"I'm sorry."

LOL